Davina: Hi, today we're here with Dr. Simeonidis. Can you quickly introduce yourself? 

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Dr. S: Sure, I'm Dr. Simeonidis, and I've taught here at TAS for 10 years, both history and law.
 

Davina: Do you think your past as an engineering undergraduate has directly benefited or hindered you in your law school journey? 
 

Dr. S: Well, I wouldn't say it hindered me. I think it was helpful because it helped me understand what I didn't want to do. And I think it also helped me understand an important life lesson, which is that sometimes you can't just continue to go with the flow. As you've probably heard me say before, I entered an engineering program simply because that's what my friends were doing, and it seemed just fine for a while. But when I realized that I didn't like it, it forced me to grapple with the question of, well, what did I really want to do? 
 

Davina: What did you switch into? 
 

Dr S: I majored in political science in college. 
 

Emily: And what was that process of making the switch? Did you do it early on? 
 

Dr. S: I made the switch for the third semester, so the second semester of my sophomore year. It had two consequences. One was that it triggered a foreign language requirement that had been waived for engineering students. The second thing was that it triggered my father's wrath. (Interviewers laugh.) So I had to talk him down, but it turned out okay.
 

Davina: How was the process of talking him down? You know, because... 
 

Dr. S: Well, I think he was in an unusual situation. He was an immigrant in the United States, and he grew up in Greece during World War II. So he never had the opportunity to even finish high school. He was a very intelligent man, wound up volunteering to work on ships, and he enjoyed getting his hands dirty and working on engines. He always admired the engineers and really wished that he could have pursued that as a study. Of course, the fates didn't allow him to.

 

So I think he saw that for me as a ticket to a good life, and when I told him I wasn't gonna do it, after him thinking that I was, it took a little bit of an adjustment. But after a few years of me being a lawyer and seeing how well that was turning out for me, he got over it. 
 

Emily: You have gone through quite a few changes in career direction; how and when do you decide that you should move on? What are some signs that it's time for a new chapter in your life? 
 

Dr. S: Well, I guess the thing I would say is that it's really important to always keep an open mind. I do think that most people wind up getting into a rut, and they just continue on because that's what they know. This, in fact (my post-law teaching career), has been the longest job I've ever had in terms of length of service. I've been at TAS for 10 years. Prior to that, I was never in one legal position for more than six or seven years. I reach a point where I've accomplished what I set out to do, and I'll start looking for the next challenge.

 

Now, in one or two cases, it was not exactly my choice. For example, in one case, the company I worked for got purchased – got bought out. So that decision was made for me. Another instance was when a company that I was working with was relocated to a different part of the country, and I didn't want to go there. So, you know, that sort of forced me to move up my timetable to leave. 
 

Davina: Two questions to build off of that: first of all, typically, what was that thing that you were seeking to accomplish? Second of all: when I told my mom that people in the legal profession shift concentrations a lot, she was super surprised because she thought that, well, you do one thing, and you do it super well – you become an expert – and you do that thing forever.
 

Dr. Simeonidis: Well, it certainly can work out that way. It really depends on what sort of job you have. In large law firms, you do tend to specialize, and then you get all of a particular kind of work. Your partners are bringing in clients from all different places, and if they have this particular problem that they know you're an expert in, they'll move that piece of the work to you, and you can keep yourself busy forever just doing that one thing.

 

That was never my goal. My goal was more to be a counsellor to companies.
 

So, although I spent part of my career in firms, first as an associate, and then as a partner, the best jobs I had were in-house in corporations, as an attorney working alongside the business people. And in that kind of job, you need to be more of a generalist. You need to be able to deal with lots of different types of issues.
 

In terms of goals, when I first started out, my goal was to get a good job at a good firm. I got that. Then I was there for four or five years. They weren't really making partners. The economy had soured. So, I wanted something where I didn't have to worry about “making partner” or “not making partner” depending on the economy. So, I moved in. 
 

When I did that, and I realized I liked it, my goal was to become the chief lawyer at a company. Well, that company got bought out. So, I had to find another job.
 

And my goal was, again, to rise as high in the organization as I could. But in that particular second role, my boss was only two years older than me and probably, you know, wasn't going to go anywhere. So, I got a job as a general counsel and moved again. 
 

So, initially, it's to get a good-paying job with interesting work. And then once you achieve that, you're looking for more responsibility. You're always looking to make more money, to become more successful, and to work on more and more interesting things. So, generally speaking, that's your goal. But you also have to interweave that with, for example, keeping a stable home life for my children and my wife at the time.

 

At the time, my wife had a job as a principal. We had two young sons. I didn't want to be moving to pull them out of school and make them start at new schools. So stability was also a goal. Sometimes I left a company to stay in the city that we were in, and not follow the company as it relocated.
 

Davina: I actually also wanted to ask about that. A stereotype among lawyers is that: Oh, you work so many hours, and then you don't have any time for your home life. You navigated that pretty successfully. Is that stereotype even true? And if it is, what do you think is the dividing line -- the difference between you and the stereotype? 
 

Dr. S: Well, it's true for some lawyers, and it's not true for others. There are legal jobs that are all-consuming.  And obviously, when you're younger and still trying to establish yourself, you would be inclined to work longer hours. You're doing more lower-level tasks, and if you're working in a law firm, they bill by the hour, meaning you have minimum hour requirements. 
 

As you get older and more accomplished, and you can call your own shots more, the question becomes: are those the shots you want to call for yourself? That is, a more livable work day, an easier commute, shorter hours, and less work on weekends.
 

That was always something that I looked for because I didn't want to be an absentee father, to the extent I was able. So I worked long hours, but I tried as best I could – and I think successfully – not to have to work, at least in the office, on the weekends. I tried to be home both Saturday and Sunday, even if I had to do some work.
 

Emily: Outside of work, what were some skills that you tried to develop, or experiences that you tried to prioritize?
 

Dr. S: Well, when you have young children, that takes up a lot of time. So, you would try to incorporate exercise or recreation with something you could do with your kids. We like to go hiking. We like to occasionally go camping. We always like to travel, and we would look for things that we could do, places we could go that were kid-friendly. Once I reached the middle of my career, and I had a little bit of say over my calendar and workday, I began to volunteer for the school system – the public school system – and I got elected to the local school board and served on that school board for about ten years.
 

Davina: About change... at TAS, you taught quite a few different classes – for example, Emily and I know you from AP Euro. There's also law --
 

Dr. S: There were other, like, European things. So, I taught regular European History, AP European History, US History, and Honors Intro to Law. Those are the four courses that I've taught in the time that I've been here.
 

Davina: How do you plan for or approach teaching a new class? Was there a favorite class that you taught? Was there one you wish you could bring back? 
 

Dr. S: Well, it's not so much favorite courses. You know, I enjoy working with young people like you, and it's always fun and happy when your students appear to respond well to what you're teaching, and so I have fond recollections from all the classes. 
 

How do I prepare for a new class? I'm a firm believer in not reinventing the wheel. Someone once said there's no such thing as good writing, only good rewriting. So I would try to start out with a model. TAS is pretty good about keeping templates and lesson plans that teachers have put together in the past. So I would start with that.
 

Now, with the law class, it was a little different. That had never been taught at TAS before. But there is a curriculum that has been established by an organization called Street Law, and so I started with that, and then it was really just a matter of creating my own PowerPoints and looking for fun and interesting activities that could help the students learn the skills or understand the content.
 

And now, of course, AI helps in that respect. It's been interesting to see how that new technology can really assist in the educational process. 
 

Davina: I'm actually pretty curious about something. After you've done a class for a couple of years, what does the prepping process become? For me, if I've done a presentation a lot of times, I could almost do it in my sleep. So, to be blunt, what exactly do you still need to prep after you've taught this class for so many years? 
 

Dr. S: Well, clearly it becomes easier, but I'm constantly refining my prep. So, for example, this year, which is the third year we're teaching law, I decided that I wanted to expand the opportunity for kids to work on a more complex negotiation in the business law unit. It was something that one or two students said they really enjoyed.
 

So, I wrote a new scenario for this year. You were the first one that did it, and instead of it being a one-period prep and assessment, it became a two-day project instead. So, that was fun.
 

Davina: Yeah. Do you know if the law class will be continued in later years? 
 

Dr. S: I hope so. It's not being offered next year because they don't have a teacher to teach it, but what I'm doing is I'm working with our new academic dean to incorporate everything onto our Atlas curriculum mapping system, so that it'll be ready and waiting for a teacher to teach it, assuming they can find someone.
 

I don't think it's absolutely necessary for the teacher of this course to be a lawyer, but I think a lot of the students would appreciate it more, because I think part of the fun is to hear the stories and what it's really like, as opposed to it just being an academic course. It's really a, here's what it's like to have this job that a lot of students are curious about. 
 

Emily: What have been some rewarding aspects of teaching high school students, and what are some things that you didn't expect or were surprised by when you started teaching? 
 

Dr. S: Honestly, I was surprised by the caliber of our students. I really expected a lot more in the way of disinterest and mediocrity. And I have been so pleasantly surprised because I am constantly finding myself absolutely astounded by some of the insights and the quality of presentation and nuanced thoughts that come out of our students.
 

Emily: Was TAS the first place you started teaching? 
 

Dr S: It's the only place I have taught, unless you count… I mean, I did teach a night law school course, many years ago. I taught legal writing to New York law students, but it was students who were going to law school at night, and so most of my students were older than me. If you can believe that.
 

Davina: Why would…? 
 

Dr S: These were people who had careers; they were stockbrokers and secretaries and business people who wanted to become lawyers, so they were taking law classes at night. I was on the adjunct faculty, so I was teaching legal writing.
 

I was much harder on them. (Laughter.)
 

Davina: Oh, thank you.

 

There's a joke at TAS that teachers either stay for 3 years or 30 years. I think you're kind of in the middle, but, uh, what has caused you to stick around for so long? 
 

Dr. S: My wife. Obviously, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for her. But I think if you're gonna teach, and if you're gonna teach abroad, I can't think of a better place. I mean, you've got great students, you've got resources, Taiwan is a wonderful place to live, so why wouldn't people stay? 
 

Davina: And the pay is good? 
 

Dr. S: The pay is good compared to teachers, for example, back in the U.S. 
 

Emily: Just to clarify, what does your wife do? 
 

Dr. S: My wife has spent the last 11 years as the lower school principal at TAS, and next year she'll be deputy head of school. But that'll be her final year; she'll retire as well. 
 

(Murmurs mourning their respective departures.)
 

Emily: How do you feel like you have changed since you were our age? Do you spend your time differently? (Laughter.) How have your priorities changed? 
 

Dr. S: Well, yes. I'd like to think my values haven't changed, but with age you get perspective. When I was your age, I had a lot of plans, I had a lot of goals, and I spent the last 64 years trying to achieve them.
 

I feel I have achieved everything I set out to do. I have a wonderful family, I've had a great career, I've enjoyed my work, and now it's time to step away from the grind, so to speak, and the feeling of what do I need to achieve next? I need to focus on enjoying time with my family and friends.
 

Davina: What are you looking forward to in Virginia? How do you think your lifestyle will change in comparison to living in Taiwan? 
 

Dr. S: Well, I'm sure it'll be very different. I'm looking forward to gardening and having a dog again. I'm looking forward to being able to understand all the conversations around me, and not just snippets and pieces of conversation. I'm looking forward to spending more time with my wife and my other family members, focusing on what we want to do, as opposed to what we have to do. And continuing to travel as much as we can and visit with friends. 
 

Davina: Are you a vegetable gardener or a flower gardener? 
 

Dr. S: I would be more of a... well, I'm not anything yet, but I'm planning to be a vegetable gardener. The property we bought has some nice space for a vegetable garden that's fenced in, and we have some very attractive and hopefully fruitful fruit trees like figs and apples, and so on. So I'm looking forward to all that. 
 

Davina: Very self-sustaining. 
 

Dr S: Yes.
 

Emily: I just want to add another question: since we're going off to college, and I'm sure our parents are going through a bunch of emotions of their own right now. What was it like for you watching your children grow up and move out of the house? 
 

Dr. S: It's a poignant time. It's the end of one thing but the beginning of something else. It's happy and sad. You spend the first 17, 18 years of your children's lives preparing them to function, and not just function but prosper and enjoy life without you. So here's the chance when they get to do that. 
 

The good news is they're physically not under your roof anymore, but they're still — if you've done it right, and we've been lucky because you not only have to do it right, you also have to be lucky — we have good relationships with our sons and our daughters-in-law. They actually like interacting with us, it seems, and visiting with us, so we're looking forward to that. 
 

So it's not… it's an end, but it's also a beginning. It's just a different phase, and it's a happy one.
 

Emily: Lastly, what advice do you have for students heading off to college just in general? 
 

Davina: Was there something in your undergraduate years that, if you could do it over again, you would do it differently?
 

Dr. S: I don't know if there's much that I would do differently. I guess my advice, though, would be to really think hard and continue to think hard about what brings you joy, and that's not something you do and then you're done with. It's a continuous process.
 

If you want to be joyful in your life, you have to devote a little bit of time to figuring out what it is that would bring you that joy, and that is, after all, the whole point of it, isn't it? To have a joyful life. You can do that without making a lot of money. You can do that through all sorts of means, but whatever it is, you've got to continuously ask yourself: What is it that I really love? What is it I really enjoy doing?
 

Then the second piece of advice I would give is, don't be afraid to change things. I think this is something that I feel a lot of people miss. Most people, for example, live their entire lives in the same community where they were born. It's comfortable, it's familiar, and so they never think that perhaps they might be happier or find more enrichment elsewhere, and I'm not just talking about physically moving but also changing jobs, changing careers, changing attitudes. Trying something new, leaving a job that's not working for you, leaving a place that doesn't make you happy, separating yourself from people who don't make you joyful.
 

So those are my two pieces of advice. Focus on what gives you joy, and don't be afraid of change.
 

Davina: Very poignant. 
 

Emily: Very good advice.